Ghosts.. do you believe??

[Athian]

Originally Posted by Roar

i read your post athian, but i didnt understand all of that:p

do you believe or not?

I am neither, this is what I think:

"I don't believe ghosts do exist". Which is none of the following:

"I believe ghosts don't exist"
"I believe ghost exist"

I won't give something the time of day unless something has been given to even make me think it's worth thinking about. If I went with "I have no reason to believe they don't exist" then it would be silly of me to say that I don't believe in dragons, fairies.. because they can't be disproven. You should note the subtle (To most people) ignorance there in the way some people think.

I have reason to believe what I do, and that's the lack of belief in ghosts since there has been nothing to say that they do exist. I could be shown that something does exist like that, but since nothing shines out to tell me that fact.. then I shall go with what I have.

For one to believe ghosts exist, they have to put in faith (belief with no evidence). And for those that say they believe ghosts don't exists are doing the same thing since it can't be proven. It's always best to go with what I do, I live with the idea that they don't, because if I didn't (as I have said already) I'd ponder the possiblitly of the red winderbeast under my bed. It's pointless and isn't worth taking seriously when nothing strikes me as "This is truth".

No one has yet given anything good enough as far as I'm concerned.

My reason to disbelieve in ghosts is the lack of evidence. Simply as that.

Originally Posted by Interllect

lol to me it just sounds like the people saying "its bullshit" are scared of the unknown and are just trying to cover up their fears with a whole load of sarcastic scientific "we need proof!! we need proof!!" & "your all retards" banter...

i mean i value your opinions but i mean... what really makes you so sure there is no ghosts if you've never experienced it first hand?

lol thats like somebody saying "I aint experienced sex before so that mean orgasms don't exsist" or "nope there is no such thing as marble cake... because i aint had any before" .... or worst still "i can hear the wind, I can feel the wind... but because I can't see the wind? the wind does really exsist"

rofl we have no solid proof to show whether or not there are ghosts, most of you are saying stuff liek "almost everybody is a retard for thinking there may be ghosts" and this is all simply based on the fact that you guys have never been in a situation that involved anything truely supernatural (and no i dont mean expanding wood supernatral ) ...

"to me it just sounds like the people saying "its bullshit" are scared of the unknown and are just trying to cover up their fears with a whole load of sarcastic scientific "we need proof!! we need proof!!" & "your all retards" banter."

I don't understand the thought process there to be honest. I'm not scared of the unknown, I welcome the unknown more than you would think actually. Though I can't except things that I don't know for sure exist. I call that stupidity and pointless. I have to KNOW FOR SURE that something exists before I can acept it as truth. I don't want to be the idiot that is like "Dude, I saw a freaking gremlin the other day" and then believe it, and then always believe it because "People can't prove it doesn't exist". It's failed logic.

"i mean i value your opinions but i mean... what really makes you so sure there is no ghosts if you've never experienced it first hand? "

I have written already that I have had these "experiences" like the others. And I still don't believe it was "ghosts". I've looked into other things and they perfectly explain what happened and how it can happen to people. I didn't say that it's 100% they don't exist because it's not possible to prove the inexistance of something that will probably never exist. I'm just saying that it's partly ignorant to believe in something you can't prove. I think that's perfectly logical.

"lol thats like somebody saying "I aint experienced sex before so that mean orgasms don't exsist" or "nope there is no such thing as marble cake... because i aint had any before" .... or worst still "i can hear the wind, I can feel the wind... but because I can't see the wind? the wind does really exsist" "

Sorry but you really don't understand the difference between those and this? That's completely ridiculous.

First off, to orgasum, you don't have to have sex. Honestly.
The other things are known to exist and have plenty of evidence to show that they do exist. If I wanted to experience wind I can step outside and feel it, know it's there.

It's almost as stupid as adding the thought of "Ohh, it's like saying gravity doesn't exist because we can't see it". Honestly thats the best argument you have? Gravity is a law, we know it's there, and we can explain it's effect and with obvious evidence of it's existance. Don't compare things like this when they are really not even the same idea.

"rofl we have no solid proof to show whether or not there are ghosts, most of you are saying stuff liek "almost everybody is a retard for thinking there may be ghosts" and this is all simply based on the fact that you guys have never been in a situation that involved anything truely supernatural (and no i dont mean expanding wood supernatral ) ... "

I have experienced (Again I say) and your point still remains invalid due to it not making much sense. People can believe in ghosts if they want, I just think it's ignorant to do so. I don't think I should have considered your point of view but since I have written all this I will post it. You make the least amount of sense yet I think.

Originally Posted by 1983

People who say ghosts dont exist are just as closed minded as those who say they do.
Both sides have no solid proof that either is right nor wrong.

Just relax and enjoy the unexplainable, im not saying belive in it.

Your serious?

your asking people to prove that something DOESN'T exist? What kind of evidence do you want for that? You people couldn't even tell us what evidence is needed for that. Here, I'll tell you something.. YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY PROVE SOMETHING DOESN'T EXIST and is WHY IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ASK FOR IT.

I use capitals in hope you get the idea.

To "enjoy the unexplainable" is to ask people to be ignorant. No thank you.

Originally Posted by Interllect

umm you do realize that made no sense right? ... all i said there is "the people discrediting the idea of the exsistance of ghosts (or paranormal activity) by calling it "bullshit" must be indeed randomly sceptical for no logical reason .. as they have no solid proof as to why it should be discreditted... which i base upon blind fear or ignorance"

you can google a pictures of "marble cake" pretty much as easily as can you google a picture of "ghosts"... so according to your statement "I've seen picture of them, so I guess they exist"

and also try showing me how easy it is to explain wind exsists? .. without saying anything that remotely sounds like "because science told me so"

Bloody heck, someone telling Altho he didn't make sense. I'm with Altho, so I shall explain the point I have in my head.

"as they have no solid proof as to why it should be discreditted... which i base upon blind fear or ignorance"

This line, I will counter with:

You miss the point. It shouldn't be credited because it can't be proven. Not because we can't prove it doesn't exist. With that logic, your asking us to prove fairies don't exist, and if we can't, it means there is no credible reason to discredit it. That actually makes sense to you? Please elaborate because I don't understand how you could.

And you base it on "Blind fear" and "Ignorance". Right, we are ignorant because we expect evidence? And we are scared because we again ask for evidence for it's existance? Wait, I think I understand now, you really hit the nail on the head with those conclusions.

What planet are you on? I hear earth has some pretty people with daft ideas living on it.

Originally Posted by rejoice art

so its pointless to argue/debate the matter further..
If you want a debate go start one in another thread

I had to quote so you'd see what I had to say about what you have said.

- We haven't exactly been spamming;
- It is on topic, just far more in depth;

Just because your a mod, it seems you think it's right to close a thread because it isn't going the way YOU wanted it to? Come on man, I don't know you much but that isn't what mods are suppose to be here for. You close it if it's either massive spam or has indecent material within it, not just because you wanted it one way and it turned out another.

I don't see why another thread should be started. This happens all the time, but it seems that because a mod started the thread it means we have to do what you say? Get a grip of yourself. I've as much right to post here as you do, so don't go abusing your position.

Originally Posted by glassbitch

yea dude
'a haunting' always has fucked up shit in it
i saw one episode where the guy was supposedly posessed or whatever and he had to get an exorcism.
crazy shit
not sayin i believe it, not sayin i dont.. its just cool haha

In the UK we have this show called "Most Haunted" and they used to have a guy called "Derek Acura" (or something) and he used to become "possesed by demons" on the show.

They later tested him by mentioning a name within ear shot of him before they did a show. This name of course was made up, but the "ghost caller" used it and obviously they got rid of him for being fake.

I don't believe in that nonsense.

Originally Posted by CkChRIzZ

I'm with glass on this one. Like I said before, I don't believe nor do I disbelieve. So again could somebody please tell me how I am close minded?..

And dec, I didn't mean to point you out as the 12 year old, what I meant was that some people here really act like it and are relatively close to the age.

Also, if I did offend anybody I apologize as it wasn't my intent, apart from some people. Ahlto knows I'll always lub him so we can fight as much as we want

Chrizz, it's not what you believe that makes you close minded, it's the point of view you gave that was (to me at least) ignorant. I didn't understand how you could have concluded like that.

"I apologize as it wasn't my intent, apart from some people".

Would you like to explain what you mean by that before I gain the obvious idea from it? Just incase I am wrong like you said before (altho cleared that up nicely).

And also, to further my point on the close minded comment I gave. You have a similar point of view as someone I quoted above, I believe (could be wrong). If I am wrong with that and you really are bothered by the comment I gave to you, then I will take some time tomorrow (perhaps) and explain where I got it from. I mean I'm interesting with people that think I'm talking shit, I like to know how you manage to get that idea. So lets talk more.

I also mean no offence to anyone, and if you do personally don't want to apologize to this "some people" that I will for the moment assume I am apart of, then I can only accept it.

Apologies for any miscommunication I may have given, I am not the best at presenting my ideas through text. So if anything still doesn't make sense to people then I can rewrite and explain how I think on the subject. I do bother to type here since it is an interesting topic, peoples minds intrigue me. Oh indeed.

[Nicki]

Originally Posted by Athian

I am neither, this is what I think:

"I don't believe ghosts do exist". Which is none of the following:

"I believe ghosts don't exist"
"I believe ghost exist"

I won't give something the time of day unless something has been given to even make me think it's worth thinking about. If I went with "I have no reason to believe they don't exist" then it would be silly of me to say that I don't believe in dragons, fairies.. because they can't be disproven. You should note the subtle (To most people) ignorance there in the way some people think.

I have reason to believe what I do, and that's the lack of belief in ghosts since there has been nothing to say that they do exist. I could be shown that something does exist like that, but since nothing shines out to tell me that fact.. then I shall go with what I have.

For one to believe ghosts exist, they have to put in faith (belief with no evidence). And for those that say they believe ghosts don't exists are doing the same thing since it can't be proven. It's always best to go with what I do, I live with the idea that they don't, because if I didn't (as I have said already) I'd ponder the possiblitly of the red winderbeast under my bed. It's pointless and isn't worth taking seriously when nothing strikes me as "This is truth".

No one has yet given anything good enough as far as I'm concerned.

My reason to disbelieve in ghosts is the lack of evidence. Simply as that.

That actually made a lot of sense to me, and is a perfect alternative to not believing for the typical scientific guy (like me).
I usually say that you can't have an opinion about something you don't know about, like if I say "this band sucks/is great" without ever listening to one single song. So: lack of knowledge about a certain subject leads to agnosticism.
Maybe I should bring this into my principles.

See, Rejoice, this eventually led to someone (maybe) changing their mind a bit.

[Interllect]

Originally Posted by Athian

I am neither, this is what I think:

"I don't believe ghosts do exist". Which is none of the following:

"I believe ghosts don't exist"
"I believe ghost exist"

I won't give something the time of day unless something has been given to even make me think it's worth thinking about. If I went with "I have no reason to believe they don't exist" then it would be silly of me to say that I don't believe in dragons, fairies.. because they can't be disproven. You should note the subtle (To most people) ignorance there in the way some people think.

I have reason to believe what I do, and that's the lack of belief in ghosts since there has been nothing to say that they do exist. I could be shown that something does exist like that, but since nothing shines out to tell me that fact.. then I shall go with what I have.

For one to believe ghosts exist, they have to put in faith (belief with no evidence). And for those that say they believe ghosts don't exists are doing the same thing since it can't be proven. It's always best to go with what I do, I live with the idea that they don't, because if I didn't (as I have said already) I'd ponder the possiblitly of the red winderbeast under my bed. It's pointless and isn't worth taking seriously when nothing strikes me as "This is truth".

No one has yet given anything good enough as far as I'm concerned.

My reason to disbelieve in ghosts is the lack of evidence. Simply as that.



"to me it just sounds like the people saying "its bullshit" are scared of the unknown and are just trying to cover up their fears with a whole load of sarcastic scientific "we need proof!! we need proof!!" & "your all retards" banter."

I don't understand the thought process there to be honest. I'm not scared of the unknown, I welcome the unknown more than you would think actually. Though I can't except things that I don't know for sure exist. I call that stupidity and pointless. I have to KNOW FOR SURE that something exists before I can acept it as truth. I don't want to be the idiot that is like "Dude, I saw a freaking gremlin the other day" and then believe it, and then always believe it because "People can't prove it doesn't exist". It's failed logic.

"i mean i value your opinions but i mean... what really makes you so sure there is no ghosts if you've never experienced it first hand? "

I have written already that I have had these "experiences" like the others. And I still don't believe it was "ghosts". I've looked into other things and they perfectly explain what happened and how it can happen to people. I didn't say that it's 100% they don't exist because it's not possible to prove the inexistance of something that will probably never exist. I'm just saying that it's partly ignorant to believe in something you can't prove. I think that's perfectly logical.

"lol thats like somebody saying "I aint experienced sex before so that mean orgasms don't exsist" or "nope there is no such thing as marble cake... because i aint had any before" .... or worst still "i can hear the wind, I can feel the wind... but because I can't see the wind? the wind does really exsist" "

Sorry but you really don't understand the difference between those and this? That's completely ridiculous.

First off, to orgasum, you don't have to have sex. Honestly.
The other things are known to exist and have plenty of evidence to show that they do exist. If I wanted to experience wind I can step outside and feel it, know it's there.

It's almost as stupid as adding the thought of "Ohh, it's like saying gravity doesn't exist because we can't see it". Honestly thats the best argument you have? Gravity is a law, we know it's there, and we can explain it's effect and with obvious evidence of it's existance. Don't compare things like this when they are really not even the same idea.

"rofl we have no solid proof to show whether or not there are ghosts, most of you are saying stuff liek "almost everybody is a retard for thinking there may be ghosts" and this is all simply based on the fact that you guys have never been in a situation that involved anything truely supernatural (and no i dont mean expanding wood supernatral ) ... "

I have experienced (Again I say) and your point still remains invalid due to it not making much sense. People can believe in ghosts if they want, I just think it's ignorant to do so. I don't think I should have considered your point of view but since I have written all this I will post it. You make the least amount of sense yet I think.



Your serious?

your asking people to prove that something DOESN'T exist? What kind of evidence do you want for that? You people couldn't even tell us what evidence is needed for that. Here, I'll tell you something.. YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY PROVE SOMETHING DOESN'T EXIST and is WHY IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ASK FOR IT.

I use capitals in hope you get the idea.

To "enjoy the unexplainable" is to ask people to be ignorant. No thank you.



Bloody heck, someone telling Altho he didn't make sense. I'm with Altho, so I shall explain the point I have in my head.

"as they have no solid proof as to why it should be discreditted... which i base upon blind fear or ignorance"

This line, I will counter with:

You miss the point. It shouldn't be credited because it can't be proven. Not because we can't prove it doesn't exist. With that logic, your asking us to prove fairies don't exist, and if we can't, it means there is no credible reason to discredit it. That actually makes sense to you? Please elaborate because I don't understand how you could.

And you base it on "Blind fear" and "Ignorance". Right, we are ignorant because we expect evidence? And we are scared because we again ask for evidence for it's existance? Wait, I think I understand now, you really hit the nail on the head with those conclusions.

What planet are you on? I hear earth has some pretty people with daft ideas living on it.



I had to quote so you'd see what I had to say about what you have said.

- We haven't exactly been spamming;
- It is on topic, just far more in depth;

Just because your a mod, it seems you think it's right to close a thread because it isn't going the way YOU wanted it to? Come on man, I don't know you much but that isn't what mods are suppose to be here for. You close it if it's either massive spam or has indecent material within it, not just because you wanted it one way and it turned out another.

I don't see why another thread should be started. This happens all the time, but it seems that because a mod started the thread it means we have to do what you say? Get a grip of yourself. I've as much right to post here as you do, so don't go abusing your position.



In the UK we have this show called "Most Haunted" and they used to have a guy called "Derek Acura" (or something) and he used to become "possesed by demons" on the show.

They later tested him by mentioning a name within ear shot of him before they did a show. This name of course was made up, but the "ghost caller" used it and obviously they got rid of him for being fake.

I don't believe in that nonsense.




Chrizz, it's not what you believe that makes you close minded, it's the point of view you gave that was (to me at least) ignorant. I didn't understand how you could have concluded like that.

"I apologize as it wasn't my intent, apart from some people".

Would you like to explain what you mean by that before I gain the obvious idea from it? Just incase I am wrong like you said before (altho cleared that up nicely).

And also, to further my point on the close minded comment I gave. You have a similar point of view as someone I quoted above, I believe (could be wrong). If I am wrong with that and you really are bothered by the comment I gave to you, then I will take some time tomorrow (perhaps) and explain where I got it from. I mean I'm interesting with people that think I'm talking shit, I like to know how you manage to get that idea. So lets talk more.

I also mean no offence to anyone, and if you do personally don't want to apologize to this "some people" that I will for the moment assume I am apart of, then I can only accept it.

Apologies for any miscommunication I may have given, I am not the best at presenting my ideas through text. So if anything still doesn't make sense to people then I can rewrite and explain how I think on the subject. I do bother to type here since it is an interesting topic, peoples minds intrigue me. Oh indeed.

lol @ this quote by quote break down of other peoples opinions for no valid reason.

yeh ok so gravity is a law and yup wind can be felt when you walk outside. but according to most:

Originally Posted by none believers

"If i cant see it? then it doesn't exsist"

or

Originally Posted by you

I have to KNOW FOR SURE that something exists before I can acept it as truth

its doubting thomas syndrome. how can you place all your beliefs or doubts into only one of your five senses? its a complete and utter contradiction to any type of logic.

imagine if long ago Benjamin Franklin had said "i doubt electricity could be used as source of energy"? or if Galileo had said to himself "you know what? they're probably right the world is flat, it probably is the center of universe and the sun rotates around the earth too"?. or Newton said "gravity? pft yeh right.. and im a son of a rhino"

im pretty sure you would be doubting those theories to.

The thing is humans can't scientifically test everything we are not god. we are limited at testing most hypothysis. sometime we are only able to ponder or consider whether it is true or not. and well GHOST & SPIRITs are within the league of unanswerable questions to science.. they can not be proven by any scientific test... so most just assume they dont exsist.. its all about how open minded you are at the end of it all

[Spook]

Originally Posted by CkChRIzZ

do you think i wanted to see what was behind a door with blood pouring down it?

i would have anyway,

why we are on crazy shit tough...i do beleive in phsychics and most of you will say thats bullshit, but until you see one, someone in my family saw one, a proffesional not one of these gypsys, and told her everyting about someone, i no its not ghost but who caresa as for ghost, well dont beleive in em but i wish ther where loads of caspers flying around hes a rude boi

oh and as for the gravity hills, i dont beleive you put handbrake on as it woul;d be skidding up, but if you dont its all optical illusions it appears to be going up but it isnt, it doesnt have an horizon as for this you cant tell but you car was actually going kinda down. if a tree was at the top of the hill it may look straight but it will actually be leaning

[Athian]

Originally Posted by Interllect

lol @ this quote by quote break down of other peoples opinions for no valid reason.

yeh ok so gravity is a law and yup wind can be felt when you walk outside. but according to most:

or

its doubting thomas syndrome. how can you place all your beliefs or doubts into only one of your five senses? its a complete and utter contradiction to any type of logic.

imagine if long ago Benjamin Franklin had said "i doubt electricity could be used as source of energy"? or if Galileo had said to himself "you know what? they're probably right the world is flat, it probably is the center of universe and the sun rotates around the earth too"?. or Newton said "gravity? pft yeh right.. and im a son of a rhino"

im pretty sure you would be doubting those theories to.

The thing is humans can't scientifically test everything we are not god. we are limited at testing most hypothysis. sometime we are only able to ponder or consider whether it is true or not. and well GHOST & SPIRITs are within the league of unanswerable questions to science.. they can not be proven by any scientific test... so most just assume they dont exsist.. its all about how open minded you are at the end of it all

Good god man. I really do hope you are playing devil's advocate here, because that was just pure crap.

Are you using the fact we can't SEE wind as an actual argument here? Are you actually serious?

To say "Wind? No, there is no wind" would be absolutley idiotic. We don't just feel it, but we can see the effects it has on the world. Bring me someone that can honestly say they haven't felt nor seen the effects of wind in their lives. You won't find a single person because we know it exists. As for ghosts, we can't announce the same thing. Well you could be "hilarious" and being me a blind, deaf, and unable to feel anything - type person. But obviously that would be explained as to why.

I'm saying I won't consider ghosts without evidence. If you say I should be more open minded to "the things we can't understand" then I would be subjecting myself to believing in everything that humans can't prove is real or not. You know, the sort of things like "Monsters exist, dragons, god, ghosts, fairies, spagetti monsters". And you laugh at my logic? Bloody hell, with your logic it would be illogical to not believe in all of those.

In the beggining of human thought, let's say way back to where we knew nothing much about anything really scientific. You'd have the opinion of "Science can't explain this or that". And then Science does explain it. You can't predict the future with your "Science and man just can not do this" based on the fact we have yet to do it. I'm saying we may do it, and before that happens I won't "open my mind" enough to believe everything is possible, that's a delusion.

"They can't prove I'm not a women"
"You have a penis?"
"You can't prove that's a penis"
"But I can see you have a penis"
"So you rely on your sight to be able to know that?"
"No, I see it and touch it. I have one of my own."
"Science can't prove it, nor can you, just open your mind and imagine it's a large clitoris"

Is that what your trying to say? Because I don't think that would be much of an argument either. I don't mind talking to people that can make some valid way of explaining something, but when you appear to start the argument of "You can't see wind so how can you know it exists?" then honestly, you need a check up.

You also quoted me saying "I have to know for sure something exist before I can accept it as truth" or something like that. So your saying we haven't proved already that wind exists? Did I not already say that seeing isn't always believing? I don't see how what your saying makes any real sense here. It's going over your head and you'd be lucky to catch up with it at this slow rate your going.

"how can you place all your beliefs or doubts into only one of your five senses? its a complete and utter contradiction to any type of logic."

Your using this against wind. Something that everyone knows about, have felt it and seen it's effects on the enviroment. Also things called tornados sometimes appear along with great huge hurricanes which can actually be seen, and have been explained by science.

Like I said, it's not a belief based on faith. I know it's fact and everyone on the planet can back that up. It's not just one of the five sense, are you that immature?

"Oh, your saying the moon is real because you can see it? Well that doesn't count because you can't touch it or smell it, dumbass. I mean, who basis fact on just one of the five senses? LOL". << Your logic? I applaud your honesty.

And finally:

"imagine if long ago Benjamin Franklin had said "i doubt electricity could be used as source of energy"? or if Galileo had said to himself "you know what? they're probably right the world is flat, it probably is the center of universe and the sun rotates around the earth too"?. or Newton said "gravity? pft yeh right.. and im a son of a rhino"

Elaborate on that, I don't see the point your trying to make out there.

Originally Posted by Ahlto

That actually made a lot of sense to me, and is a perfect alternative to not believing for the typical scientific guy (like me).
I usually say that you can't have an opinion about something you don't know about, like if I say "this band sucks/is great" without ever listening to one single song. So: lack of knowledge about a certain subject leads to agnosticism.
Maybe I should bring this into my principles.

See, Rejoice, this eventually led to someone (maybe) changing their mind a bit.

I used to be in the same boat as you, until I found out this way of explaining it. I basically got tired of being told I'm religious and I have "beliefs" and have "faith" in something that I can't prove. Being forced to go into details because some people can't accept things without it being just like their own thing..

I'm Athiest, a strong Athiest infact. I live with the idea that god doesn't exist until proven otherwise. I believe god doesn't exist" (requires faith, no evidence). I just don't believe god does exist (requires evidence to prove it otherwise). I refuse to live for something that I'll never know for sure even exists.

Someone once told me that to be agnostic would be the most logical way of being. I had to refuse that point, agnostics are perhaps the most confused of the three. The thiests know their beliefs and believe it to be real, the Athiest know what they believe but the Agnostics are "Well I'm not sure, I'm waiting for more proof".

You can show an Agonstic evidence and change their minds;
You can show an Athiest evidence and change their minds;
But you can't show the strong religious enough evidence to change their minds, because they already know it all, without real evidence.

I hate it when I'm told Athiests are religious. I don't know, I think the most logical way would be to base a system on evidence and not the ability to believe anything without proof. Things like ghosts, etc are the same thing.

Originally Posted by gaza2008

i would have anyway,

why we are on crazy shit tough...i do beleive in phsychics and most of you will say thats bullshit, but until you see one, someone in my family saw one, a proffesional not one of these gypsys, and told her everyting about someone, i no its not ghost but who caresa as for ghost, well dont beleive in em but i wish ther where loads of caspers flying around hes a rude boi

oh and as for the gravity hills, i dont beleive you put handbrake on as it woul;d be skidding up, but if you dont its all optical illusions it appears to be going up but it isnt, it doesnt have an horizon as for this you cant tell but you car was actually going kinda down. if a tree was at the top of the hill it may look straight but it will actually be leaning

The person your family saw would be a "cold reader". If you learn it you could get the same results as those "i can reads your mind" people. I saw a program on it, look into it.

"cold reading".
-------------------------

I also noticed you quote Chrizz on something, I hadn't seen that anywhere else (I don't remember at least).

Anyway, of course you didn't want to see what you did. An example from my life:

I once saw a sharp blade on my desk in front of me, covered in blood as though it had just cut someone. I then look at my wrists and see that they were cut all over.

But of course that isn't the actual truth, I have no scars, I didn't cut myself and the blade did not exist. I hallucinated, it's not one I would have chosen to see but it happened none the less.

[Interllect]

Originally Posted by Athian

Good god man. I really do hope you are playing devil's advocate here, because that was just pure crap.

Are you using the fact we can't SEE wind as an actual argument here? Are you actually serious?

To say "Wind? No, there is no wind" would be absolutley idiotic. We don't just feel it, but we can see the effects it has on the world. Bring me someone that can honestly say they haven't felt nor seen the effects of wind in their lives. You won't find a single person because we know it exists. As for ghosts, we can't announce the same thing. Well you could be "hilarious" and being me a blind, deaf, and unable to feel anything - type person. But obviously that would be explained as to why.

I'm saying I won't consider ghosts without evidence. If you say I should be more open minded to "the things we can't understand" then I would be subjecting myself to believing in everything that humans can't prove is real or not. You know, the sort of things like "Monsters exist, dragons, god, ghosts, fairies, spagetti monsters". And you laugh at my logic? Bloody hell, with your logic it would be illogical to not believe in all of those.

In the beggining of human thought, let's say way back to where we knew nothing much about anything really scientific. You'd have the opinion of "Science can't explain this or that". And then Science does explain it. You can't predict the future with your "Science and man just can not do this" based on the fact we have yet to do it. I'm saying we may do it, and before that happens I won't "open my mind" enough to believe everything is possible, that's a delusion.

"They can't prove I'm not a women"
"You have a penis?"
"You can't prove that's a penis"
"But I can see you have a penis"
"So you rely on your sight to be able to know that?"
"No, I see it and touch it. I have one of my own."
"Science can't prove it, nor can you, just open your mind and imagine it's a large clitoris"

Is that what your trying to say? Because I don't think that would be much of an argument either. I don't mind talking to people that can make some valid way of explaining something, but when you appear to start the argument of "You can't see wind so how can you know it exists?" then honestly, you need a check up.

You also quoted me saying "I have to know for sure something exist before I can accept it as truth" or something like that. So your saying we haven't proved already that wind exists? Did I not already say that seeing isn't always believing? I don't see how what your saying makes any real sense here. It's going over your head and you'd be lucky to catch up with it at this slow rate your going.

"how can you place all your beliefs or doubts into only one of your five senses? its a complete and utter contradiction to any type of logic."

Your using this against wind. Something that everyone knows about, have felt it and seen it's effects on the enviroment. Also things called tornados sometimes appear along with great huge hurricanes which can actually be seen, and have been explained by science.

Like I said, it's not a belief based on faith. I know it's fact and everyone on the planet can back that up. It's not just one of the five sense, are you that immature?

"Oh, your saying the moon is real because you can see it? Well that doesn't count because you can't touch it or smell it, dumbass. I mean, who basis fact on just one of the five senses? LOL". << Your logic? I applaud your honesty.

And finally:

"imagine if long ago Benjamin Franklin had said "i doubt electricity could be used as source of energy"? or if Galileo had said to himself "you know what? they're probably right the world is flat, it probably is the center of universe and the sun rotates around the earth too"?. or Newton said "gravity? pft yeh right.. and im a son of a rhino"

Elaborate on that, I don't see the point your trying to make out there.



I used to be in the same boat as you, until I found out this way of explaining it. I basically got tired of being told I'm religious and I have "beliefs" and have "faith" in something that I can't prove. Being forced to go into details because some people can't accept things without it being just like their own thing..

I'm Athiest, a strong Athiest infact. I live with the idea that god doesn't exist until proven otherwise. I believe god doesn't exist" (requires faith, no evidence). I just don't believe god does exist (requires evidence to prove it otherwise). I refuse to live for something that I'll never know for sure even exists.

Someone once told me that to be agnostic would be the most logical way of being. I had to refuse that point, agnostics are perhaps the most confused of the three. The thiests know their beliefs and believe it to be real, the Athiest know what they believe but the Agnostics are "Well I'm not sure, I'm waiting for more proof".

You can show an Agonstic evidence and change their minds;
You can show an Athiest evidence and change their minds;
But you can't show the strong religious enough evidence to change their minds, because they already know it all, without real evidence.

I hate it when I'm told Athiests are religious. I don't know, I think the most logical way would be to base a system on evidence and not the ability to believe anything without proof. Things like ghosts, etc are the same thing.



The person your family saw would be a "cold reader". If you learn it you could get the same results as those "i can reads your mind" people. I saw a program on it, look into it.

"cold reading".
-------------------------

I also noticed you quote Chrizz on something, I hadn't seen that anywhere else (I don't remember at least).

Anyway, of course you didn't want to see what you did. An example from my life:

I once saw a sharp blade on my desk in front of me, covered in blood as though it had just cut someone. I then look at my wrists and see that they were cut all over.

But of course that isn't the actual truth, I have no scars, I didn't cut myself and the blade did not exist. I hallucinated, it's not one I would have chosen to see but it happened none the less.

dont start arguing and calling me names emo boy or ill get Ra on you

lol what you just said makes no sense...

listen you said:

Originally Posted by you

To say "Wind? No, there is no wind" would be absolutley idiotic. We don't just feel it, but we can see the effects it has on the world.

but funnyily enough we can also see the effects spirits have.... people (not all people but a large majority of people) have witnessed spirits.. seen, heard, smell, felt & even tasted the presence of a ghosts.. so before you go around with that angry close minded, irrational, emo temper of yours? i suggest you do a little research.

Originally Posted by you

"They can't prove I'm not a women"
"You have a penis?"
"You can't prove that's a penis"
"But I can see you have a penis"
"So you rely on your sight to be able to know that?"
"No, I see it and touch it. I have one of my own."
"Science can't prove it, nor can you, just open your mind and imagine it's a large clitoris"

do u realize how stupid that sounds? if they dont know the diffrence bettween a penis and clitoris? then that must mean they got some serious sexual issues. im not even gona argue on that. plus a penis or clitoris are both usually physical manifestations.. so thats not comparable as spirits are more closer to energy than anything else

Originally Posted by you

I'm saying I won't consider ghosts without evidence. If you say I should be more open minded to "the things we can't understand" then I would be subjecting myself to believing in everything that humans can't prove is real or not. You know, the sort of things like "Monsters exist, dragons, god, ghosts, fairies, spagetti monsters".

have u heard reports about the spagetti monsters? there everywhere arent they? pft .. dude listen to what your saying "every body seen ghosts so that means batman is real" ... duhhh im not saying everything ever conjured up by the human imagination is real. but most "REAL LIFE" situations tend to differ sometime like in the case of ghosts & spirits.

Originally Posted by you

And finally:

"imagine if long ago Benjamin Franklin had said "i doubt electricity could be used as source of energy"? or if Galileo had said to himself "you know what? they're probably right the world is flat, it probably is the center of universe and the sun rotates around the earth too"?. or Newton said "gravity? pft yeh right.. and im a son of a rhino"

Elaborate on that, I don't see the point your trying to make out there.

ok heres a question "if cars where never invented, yet people made myths about horseless carts, and you are as close minded as you are about ghosts towards the prospect of cars exsisting. Then one day i show you a fully working mustang or dodge viper on a magazine or video..... how would you feel?"

see sceptism causes close mindedness

FREE YOUR MIND NEO

[Nicki]

Srsly Interllect, the guy is right. You are the close minded one.